Regenerative Health with Max Gulhane, MD
I speak with world leaders on circadian & quantum biology, metabolic medicine & regenerative farming in search of the most effective ways of optimising health and reversing chronic disease.
Regenerative Health with Max Gulhane, MD
98. Could EMF from Electricity Substation be causing NFL 49ers Horror Injury Run? | Peter Cowan
Peter Cowan and I discuss the surge in non-contact soft-tissue injuries of 49ers players and possible mechanisms including chronic magnetic field exposure from nearby electrical substation, circadian rhythm disruption causing mitochondrial dysfunction, impaired collagen repair and delayed healing.
Peter Cowan is a software developer, health coach with an interest in applied circadian biology and EMF mitigating consultant.
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TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Viral Article Backstory
5:20 The 49ers’ Injury Anomaly
9:40 Mitochondria, Water, And Collagen
16:30 EMF Basics And Misconceptions
23:30 Magnetic Fields: Units And Standards
31:20 The Substation And On-Site Measurements
38:00 Mechanism: Field Superposition In Mitochondria
45:20 Acute vs Chronic Exposure In Athletes
51:40 Beyond EMF: Circadian Strain And Turf
59:20 Collagen Timing And Repair Pathways
1:06:40 Nonlinear Effects And Research Gaps
Listen Erick Novack, MD and I discuss circadina influences on bones and orthopaedic injuries https://youtu.be/ok3Ymhbx-L4?si=fuG6ma_jg0ri5dil
READ THE ARTICLES
Could Chronic EMF Exposure from a Nearby Substation Be Causing the 49ers' Epidemic of Tendon Ruptures?
https://peteranthonycowan.substack.com/p/could-chronic-emf-exposure-from-a
How Low-Level Electromagnetic Fields Disrupt Mitochondrial Function and Trigger Cellular Dehydration: The Hidden Pathways to Collagen Fragility
https://peteranthonycowan.substack.com/p/how-low-level-electromagnetic-fields
How Invisible Fields Trigger Immune Dysfunction and Sabotage Nighttime Recovery: Mast Cell Activation, Immune Suppression, and Circadian Disruption https://peteranthonycowan.substack.com/p/how-invisible-fields-trigger-immune
Tristan Scott article
https://tristanhealth.substack.com/p/emfs-from-electrical-substation-causing
Follow PETER
Website: https://www.sunlightis.life/
Substack: https://peteranthonycowan.substa
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Welcome back to the Regenerative Health Podcast. I'm joined today by Peter Cowan. Now, Peter is a software engineer, he's a health coach and EMF mitigator, and he's the author of an extremely viral SubStech article titled Could Chronic EMF Exposure from a Nearby Substation be Causing the 49ers Epidemic of ACL injuries? So, Peter, thanks for joining me. Thanks for having me on, Max. Give us a background about this whole viral article because as we were talking off air, everyone seems to have been surprised by what actually the impact that this has had.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh, I'm probably the most surprised, honestly. Um I just I earlier about last September, I decided I was gonna really focus on developing some software that I've just been working on for a couple of years. And AI has gotten really good. So I I'll do some prompts and then I'll have five to ten minutes of waiting. And I had been doing a lot of scrolling on social media, and then I don't want to do that. So I decided I would dig into some of my long form writing. And I had seen a clip of John Feliciano, who's an ex-49er on a local Bay Area radio station, joking about the substation being the cause of their injuries because everybody wants to know why are the 49ers so injured, like in the sports world. And so I heard that. And then what I really heard though is after he made that joke, he said, you know, there's some very high-level players in the organization who take this seriously. He's like, they're like the crunchy Bay Area granola types, and they're like really concerned about their health. And it's like maybe it causes some issue with the thyroid or something. And I heard him, and what I heard there was like players are concerned and nobody's listening to them. And I tend to I do client work, and something that I really believe strongly is that people tend to kind of know what's causing their issues at like an instinctive like gut level. And so I thought nobody's listening to them. I'm gonna take them seriously. And I started, and it happened to align align some with some research I'd already been doing. I just started writing it. And then I had um, I happened to be going down to the Bay Area to visit my family for Thanksgiving. And on the way back from way back to the airport, um, I stopped at the stadium with my dad, and we had like maybe 10 minutes there. And I looked for a place where I could measure, there's guards everywhere, and I thought, you know, I'm just gonna get under the field right here. I took my my video and we left and spent another month writing the article. And I I told a colleague, I I hit some colleagues up, say, I'm gonna start a sub stack, you know, maybe I can get them to recommend it and maybe get like 10 subscribers or something. And I had a buddy in the bay bay, and we were we do this friends Thanksgiving every year, and he's like, you know, we know the owners of the 49ers, and like maybe you know, this is interesting. Maybe I could get a meeting with them. I so I thought maybe I'll get like 10 to 30,000 views and like just enough exposure that I can maybe get that meeting and like help the players out because honestly, that's what my interest was. And then, you know, as always goes with the things, I I posted it, I shut my computer for 24 hours because I was hanging with my girls for we were celebrating a late Christmas because they had been with their mom. And then I upload my computer the next day, and it's like every hour it was increasing by a half a million views, and I'm just like, what the hell is happening? So that's how this all started.
SPEAKER_01:Talk about your thesis because um and give some background to the to the sport because it's my understanding that, or at least as detailed in your article, that this team in San Francisco, uh NFL team, have a significantly above average injury rate.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and so you know, I'm I grew up in the Bay, I'm a Niners fan, but I'm not like a hardcore football watcher. So I it wasn't really on my radar until I heard John Feliciano mention it. And I um so I started looking to it, and there's a big world, the whole world of like fantasy football and now sports gambling, they're really concerned about this issue because it affects them in a very concrete way. And there's a a writer named Aaron Schatz who's really dug into this, and um, they came up with a study called AGL, and it's called it means adjusted games lost. And it's really a way to look at the impact of the injuries. So it's not just who's on the roster and who's not. It's they have like they could be questionable, doubtful, and there's different statuses, and and it depends on uh how important that player is to the team, and so on and so forth. And as far as the Niners go, they're just like they're in the bottom. I think I always get it backwards. They're in the bottom of those rankings like for almost every year since they moved to the Levi Stadium.
SPEAKER_01:And and I'm guessing that metric encompasses the severity of the injury. So a torn Achilles or a Russian ACL is gonna take you out for uh a very long time.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. And in doing that research, I realized that so many of these injuries that we're seeing are soft tissue injuries and many of them non-contact. And I had watched the Super Bowl in 2024, I think it was, and Dre Greenlaw was running from the sidelines in and just sub in for another player, and he tore his Achilles just running in from the sidelines, and it just didn't seem right. You know, I I like I said, I grew up watching football in the early 80s, and just like standards were way different than the technology we had, but nutrition, everything not as good. And you weren't seeing this rash of soft tissue non-contact injuries.
SPEAKER_01:You to to rupture a an Achilles tendon that is a very, very significant injury. Um here here in Australia, it it can sometimes happen to say netball players, but it's a like biology has built an extremely robust piece of soft tissue um to to in order to deal with the amount of force that's supposed to go through that. Um so it you it I mean, and there's certain conditions. I mean, we can talk about this for a crinoline antibiotic use is a is a really big one in terms of predisposing you to an Achilles rupture, but um yeah, it's there has to be some pretty deranged physiology or some insane amount of force to actually rupture an Achilles tendon.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I I have a good example in real life. I was playing basketball with a friend who had a history of Achilles issues in his life, but never a tear. And I jumped up to grab the ball and I landed on his Achilles as it was like hyper flexed. So most of my weight landing directly on it from a pretty high jump, and that snapped his Achilles' attendant. But that was like a direct high impact injury on someone with a history of issues.
SPEAKER_01:So let's launch into the the actual thesis here and what you've detailed. I guess a summary, I would obviously encourage everyone to go and read the series. It's not long and it's very well written and accessible, but explain what you think is going on here to connect the presence of an electrical substation and this NFL football stadium to the injury rate.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I mean, like you said, there's there's a lot in there, and but I I think just from a very high level, it's mitochondrial dysfunction and it's causing you know, so mitochondria produce energy, ATP, and they produce radical oxygen species and they produce water. And when you disrupt the mitochondria, they produce more radical oxygen species and less water. And so at a very high level, I'm seeing dehydration at the cellular level, and collagen is roughly 99.6% water by molecule count. And it's it's an important part of the structure of the collagen. And so just at the very simplest level, if you're disrupting mitochondrial function and to the point where you're getting dehydrated at a cellular level, collagen structure is going to be impacted.
SPEAKER_01:I actually want to walk people through that and maybe medical colleagues who maybe in their pre-entry courses did a bit of mitochondrial physiology, but definitely would have wouldn't have remembered, which is this idea that the mitochondria make water. And and so to be extremely abundantly clear about this idea of cellular dehydration, what Peter's referring to is that the a product, a byproduct of mitochondrial oxid oxidative phosphorylation, of essentially physiology exhaust, whatever you want to call it, is going to be water and it's made and carbon dioxide, which is made at the the fourth uh complex of the electron transport chain. So the uh electrons tunnel through the complexes, um, protons get pumped out across the the membrane um to create this this gradient proton gradient, and then oxygen comes in outside of chrome C and it accepts that that that electron and if it forms water, H2O. So and I I think a lot of people, and we can we can talk about this as well, who have been criticizing you and some with the MD qualification after their name, I I don't think they have even made that connection in their head about um you know the the the point that you're making with respect to that this point.
SPEAKER_00:I think yeah, and I think to be fair to them, like they're trained differently, you know, and it it was I don't think oxidative stress was necessarily even in the uh the the what they learned in medical school until more recently. So people don't know what they don't know, and I can't blame them for that. And part of partially why I wrote that is just like there's a lot more information here, and um these are known like oxidative stress is a known mechanism. Very, very go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:And and and I think the the dehydration aspect of it is is huge. I I happened to when when I read your word the piece, and uh uh to me that that felt really one of the FL correct it felt um mechanistically plausible. And this idea that if we're in a bathing in a in a soup of non-native magnetic field, and that is negatively affecting mitochondrial physiology, one of the most, I guess, robust or yeah, plausible mechanisms would be that the the the the mitochondrion isn't or the mitochondrial colony in general, because we really need to be specific here. It's not just about one mitochondrion in in um you know one fibrobast or or or or one um myocyte. It's the entire colony of mitochondria in in the entire body are going to have their energy output reduced and potentially water production reduced if they're in a a field that is that's non-native to them.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And I I think it's it's worth pointing out, just because we're talking about you know a lot of your colleagues in this field, is that even if you are educated in how the mitochondria works, you are taught that water is a byproduct. And just the traditional science is, oh yeah, it's just a byproduct. Whereas, you know, when we get into this more quantum biology perspective and biophysics, water is a structural element and plays a key role in the transport of electrons throughout the body. And I specifically avoided talking about that too much in my essays because you know, there's so much that we just don't know. And I wanted to be able to talk to people in the language that they would be more likely to know. But I like so if you're from that that world and you're like water's a byproduct, it doesn't matter. Like, yeah, you're you're it's not this thesis is kind of just going to be like an eye roll to you, maybe.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and and the the reality is that it's a it's hydrating these proteins. It is um some who it was described as the the the meat, the stage and the actors. I mean, it's it's everything that is going on, all the biochemical reactions and the biophysical reactions that uh allow life are doing so on the background of of water and in an in an aqueous environment.
SPEAKER_00:Right. I mean, like my my Twitter tag is Sunlight is life, but honestly, I I kind of feel like water is life.
SPEAKER_01:The the Guy Foundation, who I've been doing a uh a bit of collaborative work with, who are a philanthropic institution dedicated to research in in quantum biology, they recently finished their autumn series on on light. Um and prior to that it was it was water. And the next series they're gonna do is on magni magnetobiology and magnetism. So again, it's to to head off initial thoughts about you know pseudoscience or woo-woo, the the the leading researchers in the life sciences in the world are researching these three fundamental inputs into biology. And I think the reason why they're so fundamental is because of how they influence mitochondrial physiology and how much of health comes back to mitochondrial health and mitochondrial operating properly.
SPEAKER_00:And it's really it's kind of a paradigm shift that we're going through right now, and we're at the leading edge of it, and it's new to a lot of people, especially if you're in day-to-day practice and you're doing you know clinical work, you're not reading all the new brand new research. And the Guy Foundation is one example. I've read their book, it's amazing. I would highly recommend it. I don't remember what it's called, but uh it's really, really fascinating.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I got Professor Professor Professor Guy sent me a copy. It's called Quantum Biology and The Glimpse into the Future of Medicine.
SPEAKER_00:So it's hard science and um just like understanding how things work at the quantum level is a is a different way of it'll kind of break your mind a little bit, but it's very fascinating.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and and you know, underlying this research area is this thought that biochemistry is inadequate to explain the speed and the complexity of of how the cell and life interact. And there's got to be um aspect to this that is that's using light to communicate, that is um using quantum mechanical processes. So let's talk about this idea of non-native EMF, because um off the bat, people are that might have triggered some of the calls that people have said that this is you know potentially a conspiracy theory. So explain to us about uh EMF, non-native EMF, and these basic components.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'd like to just start real simple. And like most people don't know what EMF is, they don't know what electromagnetism is. Uh some like the the guy that first started the this controversy online referred to EMF as the electromotive force. Like it's just not something most people know about, you know. And Chase Sr. I got to call him out, he's a great guy. Um, so I I like to just point out that you know, when it's been raining and then the sun comes out, you see a rainbow and it breaks out into the seven colors, and red is the biggest one, and then down at the bottom is violet, and they'll kind of bend at different, different rates. That's because they're different wavelengths and they have different strengths and different lengths of the wave. So light is a form of electromagnetic radiation. It's a very small, you know, it's I can't go too far, but you know, it's very tiny. There's there's something like 70, 71 octaves of electromagnetism. So on the UV side of light, we get into something called not uh called ionizing radiation, which is radiation that can physically knock an electron out of an atom. And that's where you get things like X-rays and gamma rays, and everybody knows those are harmful. You go to the doctor to get an X-ray and they put the big lead apron over you, it's heavy, and there's like, well, you know, for some reason it's okay to blast one part of your body with the radiation, but not the rest, like but yeah, it uh so then, but on the other end, uh outside of visible light, you get infrared and all the way down to something called the Schumann resonance, and that is lower energy electromagnetic radiation that is not ionizing, it it cannot knock an electron out of anything. Um and people experience infrared, you experience it as heat because it causes vibrations in the involvement molecules in your body, but anything below that is kind of just like it's invisible unless you're hypersensitive, you can't feel it. And historically it's been the the common narrative has been that unless it creates a thermal effect, as in it unless it's strong enough to physically heat your tissues, it's not gonna cause any health issues. And within that whole spectrum is things like AM radio, FM radio, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, microwaves, millimeter waves, all the way on up to infrared.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, great great explanation. And I think I'd colour that by making it clear that the the human body uh essentially evolved with uh quite a specific signature of electromagnetic radiation. I think that's that's really clear. And what what that means is the the life on Earth was shaped by the presence of an absence of of certain wavelengths of electromagnetic energy. And I think, as you mentioned, visible light from between 400 nanometers and and um and 760, 780 is what is potentially what we can see. But really that whole spectrum from 280 nanometers, which is UVB, and below UVB, it gets cut off by atmospheric ozone, probably a good thing, prevents us from really high energy um light hitting us. And then projecting all the way beyond 2500, 3000 nanometers in in the infrared, that is our like native electromagnetic uh signature. And I think, and that's what what the adaptations that our biology and our mitochondria have made to deal with. But what what you're describing, and sure, and the Schumann resonance as well is is is a very native EMF, but what what you're describing in in all the radio range is that these are wavelengths or areas of the in of the electromagnetic spectrum that we have co-opted for our technological and communicative use, and that they weren't present prior to to our the development of the electricity grid.
SPEAKER_00:Basically, yeah. I think when the telegraph arrived in the mid 1800s was the first time we were exposed to a non native. And I also think though it's it's interesting to Note that um even though that all those things you mentioned are basically the the electromagnetic radiation that we evolved with, there are times, you know, when just from natural cycles with the sun and so on, that we are exposed, the the conditions kind of change. Um, you know, and you get you do get some radio waves coming through the atmosphere. And uh when the sun is really hyperactive, you'll get more like high energy stuff coming through the atmosphere. And so there's phenomena throughout human history of health effects from these external space, let's call it space weather effects. Um, people have been sensitive, like they call it meteorological sensitivity. And in there's correlations, some people believe between solar cycles and pandemics and comets and pandemics. So there's other forms of non-native EMF, basically, that we've been exposed to. But see, in the past almost 200 years, we've really ratched it up by creating technology that is now basically omnipresent. We've really ratched it up, so it's always with us.
SPEAKER_01:The key point that you mentioned, that Peter mentioned, is that the assumption of regulatory bodies, governments, is that this energy beyond infrared, just non-ionizing radiation is uh essentially just absence of human uh harm, as long as it's not at intensities too uh sufficient to heat the tissue. And and I think that is the key, that's the crux of the the issue. That's how our modern telecommunications-based society can function. Because if if we if we did, or or if the regulations reflected at least what the animal data talks about in terms of RF radiation, um potentially magnetic field radiation as well from the the power grid, then um I think that would severely hamper the the progression and expansion of of communication. So I think I just want to say that as a prefacing comment before we dive in deeper because someone will say, all right, if it's so harmful, why is it not banned?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And also that's you know, just to be fair too, like when they came up with those standards, it was because radar operators were getting burnt by radar. And we we didn't have as much knowledge about the mitochondria and oxidative stress and stuff. So it doesn't even have to be some big thing. It sometimes standards get set and they get locked in place. And then institutional inertia and economic factors mean it's it's gonna be really difficult to change those without disrupting the status quo. And status quo is a very powerful force. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:We'll we'll we won't talk a lot about radio frequency. I think there's that that can be a discussion for another time. But let's let's talk specifically about these magnetic fields. And maybe I wanted to also preface this conversation with the the statement that magnetic fields influence biology. I I think that's a really key flag in the sand here because uh and and there's a there's a bunch of studies that that we know about that, and maybe I'll give a quick overview, which is hypomagnetism, and and this is being studied in the in the case of the of astronauts and potentially what happens when we go beyond uh Earth's magnetic field to Mars, Moon, whatever. And it's it seems pretty compelling from a range of research that when you remove the the organism, the human cell, the human body from a magnetic field, the native magnetic field, it suffers and it suffers badly. So although people don't realize it, they can drink water, they can get sunlight and see that th those are necessary, they probably can't feel a magnetic field. But I just wanted to make the point here that it's it's an undisputed medical and scientific fact that magnetism is key for human existence.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. Um I I think that one of my favorite studies about magnetism and human existence comes from a doctor named Rutger Weaver that did some, he basically built these underground bunkers. Uh and correct me if I'm wrong. One was a Faraday cage that blocked out the electrical signals, and the other one used something called MU metal, mu metal, I don't know how it's pronounced, but it's big like a nickel-iron alloy that can block magnetic fields. And he let the subjects in there, they give them artificial lights so they could kind of turn the lights on and off as their circadian rhythm adjusted to the new environments. And he found that in the the basic Faraday cage room, that the their sleep-wake cycle kind of drifted to 25 hours or so. Um, but if they introduced a 10 hertz wave, which is similar to that Schumann resonance that we were talking about, it would bring them back closer to the 24-hour um window. But in the Moon at all cage, it was completely blocked from the magnetic fields. They drifted. I don't remember, I think it was above 30 hours, some people even to 50 hours, I think. And the uh I don't actually remember the details beyond that, but the the turns out that the magnetic field has a significant effect on just all of our processes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it it's it's an area of active research, and I and I think it is um is key to or part of the development of the quantum the exploration of quantum biology. And um initially, I believe it was the discussion or discovery of of magnetor reception in in I think as a European swallow, and they realized that the European robin they they're they're able to navigate based on on magnetism. And uh, you know, the mechanisms here probably related to um to radic elect like electron spin and and um some m magnetochemistry going on and and how potentially the organism is sensing uh these magnetic fields through the effect on on electron spin. But the the crux here is that we are very sensitive to magnetic fields and particularly their absence. So so what what what about the presence of a non-native magnetic field? And maybe you can give us some units so we can essentially understand the magnitudes here.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's a good idea. I'm I'm so bad with units, but I did write them down because because I got two different tools that I use, and one measures in one unit and one measures in the other. I'm always but um specifically for you wanted to focus on magnetic fields. In the United States, uh I think the cutoff is 2,000 milligavs, at which point it's considered harmful. However, in Russia, which I I use as a comparison, just because Russia historically their scientists had looked at the effects of this stuff at a very different level, like seeing immune immune effects even back in like the 40s and 50s. Their cutoff is let's see, looks like I didn't write it down. Oh yeah, 50 to 100 milligaus. And so the numbers that we're seeing though, like a typical background exposure at someone's house is 0.5 milligaus. And then it'll go up to like you know 20 if you're under some very high voltage power lines, maybe even higher if they're like a very key like feeder line or something. Um, but you typically don't see much above that in a normal residential area.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I've got some figures here, and this is thanks to Tristan Scott, who wrote a really great uh background piece to your pieces on Substack. And uh he's got he's made the point that the US actually has the highest limits for uh EMF exposure and uh compared to other countries. So Sweden and the Netherlands, they have four milligauss limit for new construction of schools, daycare, and playgrounds. Interesting. Israel four millig four milligauss should be the limit as a as a for continued and prolonged exposure, and again, four four milligaus for new construction for sensitive locations, Russia 50 milligaus, Italy 30, Switzerland 10 milligauss for sensitive places, um, and New York State 200 milligauss right-of-way limit for power lines. So so okay, those are those are the limits that have been set here. What what are we dealing with um say from the natural background radiation? Uh do you are you across those numbers for the Earth? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I I think yeah, it depends on where you are latitude-wise, but it averages roughly uh 0.5 Gauss, so 500 miligauss. Yeah. And if you're closer to the equator, it's like 0.35. And if it's at the poles, I think it's 0.65.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But I think it's really important to make a distinction about that magnetic field. It's qualitatively very different than the magnetic fields that are emanating from our electric infrastructure. So our infrastructure is AC, alternating current. So you're getting this sine wave and it's flipping polarity. In the United States, it's 60 hertz, so that's 60 times a second. Most of the rest of the world, it's 50 hertz, 50 times a second. And then let's say you have a like a refrigerator magnet. I don't actually know the Gauss on a refrigerator magnet is pretty strong, but it's a static field, and you have the positive side and the negative side. And if you ever wind up at like some hippie wellness fair, like there'll be like somebody selling you magnet therapy up, you know, um it's an interesting thing. I haven't looked it too much into, but um there's still a difference between a refrigerator magnet and the earth's magnetic field because the in the earth, the the field comes out of the south pole and goes up to the north pole and goes back in. And so depending where where you are on the planet, it the so let's say you're at the equator, it's basically the field's going straight up and down, but at the poles, it's almost completely horizontal to the earth. And so, and then it moves in between, and the strength goes in between, and it's only one direction. So if you're in the South Pole, it's coming out, and if you're in the North Pole, it's going back in. So it's just not qualitatively comparable at all to AC magnetic fields.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and that's the point I'm I was uh alluding to, which is simply measuring intensity is is not sufficient to delineate or separate a native from a non-native uh field. And we can't say just because the field coming out of the on the 49ers field is uh is is less than the background um Earth's magnetic field that it's somehow you know benign or or not biologically significant. The the other the other point I I think is worth making is that the actual evidence for uh some of these this EMF exposure is actually in cancer. And again, Tristan really uh did that has explained that really nicely. But it's saying um Album at Al 2000, which seems to be potentially uh a systematic review, uh showed that for children exposed to average fields greater than four milligauss, there was a relative risk of exactly two with respect to leukemia. And Greenland at Al 2015 studies for children exposed to average fields greater than three milligauss, the relative risk uh is of again of of leukemia is 1.7. So uh interesting studies or scientific research, human inhumans, showing a negative health effect.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I was when you were telling me the different standards in the countries that four milligas really stood out to me because I'm I'm aware of three milligas really being the threshold from the research that I've been familiar with with where childhood childhood leukemia really starts to pop up. And a ton of research was done on this in the 70s when the big power lines were going through because we were upgrading our infrastructure in the United States, but it seems to have been memory hold.
SPEAKER_01:So talk now about, yeah, again, like what what is the talk about the actual substation, its proximity to this to the stadium and what type of measurements you were getting when you walked there yourself?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I do want to be clear about that. I I was not actually able to get super close to the facilities. It's kind of tucked in right behind the the actual stadium. There's the facilities, and then there's two roads that go either direction. And so I was a good football field length away from the facilities. Um, and I think the what the readings that I was getting were likely from either an overhead line or an underground feeder, which I did I measured some underground feeders around there that were when I was standing over them, I was getting between 20 and 30 milligauss at like waist level down right above the field, was it was above 50. I don't remember what it was, but it was clear that that was from a feeder. So I didn't want to get that field. But um there's no way for me to know exactly what the reading would be at the facilities from the substation itself. I do know that it is the largest substation in Silicon Valley Power, and it was created to serve the stadium, but also a growing number of data centers because this is Silicon Valley and it's kind of the center of where a lot of these tech companies build their data centers. It has three massive 50 mega ampere transformers. I think I got the unit right, forgive me wrong. And it's got these big bushings as well. And both of those things are prominent sources for the magnetic field. And I believe it's my understanding that the bushings, the way that they're constructed, make it so that the field doesn't um uh get weaker as fast as it might otherwise. So, based on the estimates that I did and what I've heard from people who have claimed that they've got a uh Gauss meter in there, is that I so I I measured uh roughly nine milligauss, just a hair under nine milligauss. They said they were seeing readings about four times higher, up to 36. When I did my estimates, I cut it off at 21 for a typical custodian because I was trying to be conservative. But again, there's there's no way we can know for sure until somebody in there says, okay, we did a reading and it's the size.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I saw a tweet from someone called Lightwork, Lightwork Home Health. Yeah. And they look like EMF building biologists who did some measurements and got between 4.7 to 22 milligaus. And again, that's that's outside the the facility. So would would be very interesting, as we say, to to get some readings from inside the stadium.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, particularly the facilities, though, because that's right up against the substation. The stadium itself is a little bit farther.
SPEAKER_01:So I guess we're like to recap on where we're at at the moment, we've we're observing or the there's an observed massive in proportionate increase, disproportionate increase in non-contact, no unprovoked soft tissue injuries in this in this team. Um there's this a huge electrical subsection nearby. We have uh a hypothesis uh which I think is is holds water and um holds water uh that potentially mitochondrial dysfunction and reduced mitochondrial water production is contributing to cellular dysfunction and potentially weakening these key connective tissues that manifest because the players are exposed essentially continuously during their working day to these uh these non-native magnetic fields emanating from the substation. So, and and to be clear, we talked about the evidence behind childhood leukemia, but up till now there hasn't been any longer or larger research specifically about self-tissue injuries.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. And to the extent that there is any scientific literature on a direct connection, it's the effect of I think it's like 2,000 milligauss on on fibroblasts. So, you know, um, that's why I really focused more on the theoretical mechanisms. And there's a lot of indirect evidence, you know, um, evidence that EMS cause oxidative stress, evidence that oxidative stress causes issues with collagen. But um yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, maybe maybe we can talk a little expand a little bit more on on the theory that you're or the like the proposed mechanism, because I think that's a real strength of your your uh subsex series. And what what you mentioned was in in your article was this difference, I guess, between a potential in the endogenous electromagnetic field that's actually being generated as a byproduct of electron transport compared to an external field, which is obviously coming from the power group.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I think to me that's kind of the key piece. If you don't read anything else, it comes from a study by um a specialist in micro uh in um electromagnetic radiation and its effect on human health from Canada named Paul Horeau. And he wrote a review, or I don't know if it's a study or a review, but um back in 2025 about wireless and its effects on biology, and he took it down to the just very basic principles of physics. And as you mentioned, when our you know, when the electrons are going across that inner mitochondrial membrane, they're generating their own electromagnetic field. And I don't know, it's like negative 140 millivolts or something like that. It's it's um it's not very strong. Um, but he Paul Horeau pointed out that when you overlay one electromagnetic field on another one, it there's there is a physicist in the 1800s, um Maxwell. The he had the like the four principles of electromagneticism, something like the four laws of electromagneticism. Um, one of them is the principle of superposition. So when you overlay one on another, they alter each other. And so the way I like to kind of visualize it is let's say you dropped a pebble in a pond and you got these tiny little ripples, and then a boat comes by far away and you get these big waves coming through, it's gonna change the the smaller waves. And like when you're at the bottom of the wave, they're gonna get compressed, and when you're at the top of the wave, it's gonna get expanded. And so that can that will pull some of the electrons off of that inner monochromochondrial membrane and lead to more reactive oxygen species and less water. And I think the most important point that I don't did not really emphasize in my piece, unfortunately. Unfortunately, is that it's not so much the strength of that external field as it is the change. So if you're in an environment that has to say it has, and this is not to discount strength in general, but people like to focus on the strength argument because they're, you know, for all the reasons we already talked about. If you're in an environment that's at, let's say, 0.5 milligauss and you move into an environment that's at 25, then that's a big shift. And that just the shift itself, regardless of strength, is going to cause problems.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um absolutely. And to me, it seems uh I I think it's relevant to make the point that when you you know, we we talked about like the the duration of exposure and the the temporary nature of exposures, because obviously people, again, to give a medical analogy or reference point, is when you when you hop into a uh MRI machine, the the way that device uh is able to image your your tissues, your inside of your body, is by essentially spinning a huge magnet around you, creating a very, very strong magnetic field, and then um you know using pulses of of RF to essentially capture images. And it's that based on some complex physics that that's not really relevant to this. But the the point is you that is a very temporary exposure. You know, you you're in an MRI machine for maybe 40 minutes, you're not um under 15 million milligauss, uh, you know, whatever 1.5 Tesla machine, depending on how advanced the uh the MRI machine is. You're not in that for the whole of your day. And and I think the key point here with respect to the 49ers and these injuries is that uh that they're they're it's like they're bathing in this, they're going into an environment of of higher background non-native magnetic fields. Every single day of their working life, these guys are professionals, that that's their occupation. So um whereas the the human by the human organism is extremely efficient or capable of dealing with intermittent stresses, the issue here, and I think it reflects the issue with EMF exposure in general, is the unrelenting nature of the exposure that essentially renders a hormetic response essentially not it isn't there's no hormesis happening here. There's just essentially chronic uh you know self danger response and and uh and you know HPA activation, hypothalamic pituitary adrenal disactivation. Um, I I I think that's a pretty important point.
SPEAKER_00:I think it's a hugely important point. And I like that's why I put chronic exposure in the headline of my tweet that 22 million people saw, and I'd say only like 1% of them remembered the chronic part. And that's just how social media works. It's a huge it's a very important part of this argument. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Maybe talk a little bit about the mitochondria in this as an environmental sensor, because I think that's another that's also relevant to this, which is um they're not only there to transform food substrate into into ACP. There's there's actually a lot more to the mitochondria than than simply that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean it's interesting. Traditionally, we're taught that basically food are converted into electrons and then are just transported uh added to the electron transport chain, et cetera, et cetera. And turns out that light is a huge, huge factor in charging our mitochondria and infrared light in particular. And then blue light in particular, especially when isolated, is known to damage the respiratory proteins and degrade mitochondrial function. And so, you know, the body is an electrical system and there's certain mechanisms that are sensitive to like different frequencies and stuff. And I talk about like the voltage-gated calcium channels and so on and so forth. Like we this is not controversial information, but we're still kind of learning what what all how it really affects us at a systemic level and what it all means. So it's it's not really an issue. We know everything here. It's like, well, this is a whole new field, and we're really starting to learn more about it. And um why not look deeper?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, it's it's very, very it's it's at least worth looking into, I think, um, rather than just dismissing out of hand, which uh it seems like some have have been interested in doing. Maybe we can take a step back from the mechanisms because I mean we've discussed a lot, maybe a lot of people listening to this that that's a little bit advanced for them anyway, but um enough for people to start their investigations. But if we if we take a step back and think a bit more about the environment that the players are in. So sure that what we're we're implying or suggesting that being in this perfor in this facility and and being exposed to this magnetic field is is not ideal. But like what else is happening in the modern athlete's environment that could potentially be impacting healing?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm I'm glad you asked that because I actually think that circadian disruption is a bigger factor overall. And I I think that the EMF from the substation is likely kind of like the the straw that broke the camel's back for the 49ers because you're seeing these soft tissue injuries across the league, across all professional sports. And I haven't looked in college and high school, so I don't I can't answer that question, but I would be surprised if you weren't seeing it there. And we don't have to dig too much into that mechanism if you don't want to, but um, I would just encourage anyone to look at the third article of my series. It's non-controversial circadian mechanisms showing exactly how collagen synthesis and repair is a time is is based on timing mechanisms, based on our light exposure. And these football players, you know, they're they're when they're not playing games, they're working out indoors under artificial light, and they're staying up watching film reels, you know, analyzing plays when it's dark out, and then they're traveling across multiple time zones every week, practically every week, and um, then they're playing these games outside with this massive bright lights on them, and then so that's the circadian stuff. I think, and you you can actually see that a lot of players are now starting to use blue blockers. And I've heard that some teams even have like a wind-down twilight protocol. I have haven't seen actual documented evidence of it, but I wouldn't be surprised. This stuff is not really that cutting edge anymore, it's becoming very mainstream. So I think that alone is enough to be causing these issues. But then beyond that, let's let's look at the other things that they're subject to. And we should say, I know you don't want to get too much into RF, but the density of cell towers in, especially in a place like Silicon Valley, has increased massively since 2014. And I will be doing a follow-up where I look at that and so people can see it. But let's skip over that for now. I think the biggest criticism I get from sports fans are like it's the turf. It's uh Shanahan's, I don't know, I'm not a football nerd, so I don't know. But it's something about it. He's got like he's too aggressive or whatever, and then this, you know, maybe the players are too old, they're older on the 49ers, um those kind of things. And and then um for people that are not necessarily steeped in football world, but are maybe more on the longest side, you get, I think you pointed out earlier, like Cypro is used a lot as an antibiotic. Um, and especially when they're dealing with like MRSA and these, you know, these and so that itself can degrade to collagen and even just the stress of working out a lot and not getting adequate um repair time. There's oxidative stress, up I don't remember if it's upregulate or downregulate something called MPP that is a critical factor in collagen synthesis. So there's a lot of these factors. It's never one thing. And I think unfortunately in the wellness world, it's like people are like, it's the one thing. And like I the way I wrote this article, it sounded like I was saying it's the one thing, but that's not my MO. Like this is just something that was overlooked that I thought needed some some looking at.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and to to maybe like there's a lot there. Let's quickly explain circadian rhythm, like presuming there's someone who's completely new to this science. Um, may maybe you can explain that for the for for them, and I'll color in anything I think is relevant.
SPEAKER_00:Sure. I mean, I think circadian rhythm, I think a lot of people kind of intuitively understand. Like we we got artificial light in what 1890 or something like that. Before that, it was candles, fire, propane, whatever, um, oil lamps. And so we basically evolved in an environment where light came from the sun and the moon. And so our system adapted to the signals from the changing quality of the light throughout the day. And the most important signal is right at sunrise. So I mentioned the rainbow earlier. You got that big red at the top and then the violet at the bottom. The blue frequencies change the most during out there throughout the day. The red is pretty stable. Right at sunrise, you go from a little blue to a ton of blue. And that blue spike, as we call it, sets your your circadian clock in your brain, basically tells your body's processes, what time of the day it is, and gets you ready for the morning, kicking out some hormones and so on and so forth. And then on the other side, when the sun goes down, the blue goes away, and that allows melatonin to be secreted from your pineal gland. And then there's a lot of processes that are waiting for that melatonin signal to upregulate, downregulate, et cetera, et cetera. And so when we disrupt that process, the very simple high-level overview is we're pumping out the wrong hormones at the wrong time of day and not getting the right hormones at the right time of day, and it causes chaos in their system.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. And if anyone wants to dive into this again from actually a sports point of view, I recorded with Eric Novak, MD, who's a cool. He's a orthopaedic surgeon and a trauma surgeon in in Arizona. And he himself noted and basically said a lot of what you said, well, specifically with respect to light and and potentially things like Bluetooth, headphones, and the rest. Uh, this is more than a year ago, um, to explain this explosion of of soft tissue injuries that he's seeing in in athletes. And yeah, well well explained, I mean, the circadian rhythm is something that, again, was um solar light, the sunlight, and nocturnal darkness was the norm for the whole duration of life on Earth. And only since the late 1800s, as you said, we've found a way of lighting up our nighttime. And I think more recently, found a way of everyone staying indoors under under artificial light that's a it's that's a fraction, it's 10% of the natural solar spectrum. So people people aren't recovering and then they're not sending the correct signals and they're not recovering properly, as you as you said. And key to the discussion about sports injuries is the degree to which collagen is made, remodeled, and repaired. And as as you you you uh highlight, it's it that is regulated on a 24-hour rhythm. So if these athletes are uh going to bed at 11 p.m. and they're having between sunset and bedtime four hours of blue light, they're they're potentially delaying their onset of of that melatonin um potentially at least by that much. Yeah. Yeah. The the um did you have anything else to add about um I guess yeah, circadian or like alternative explanations? Because uh, yeah, we if we just focus on the science here, this is probably a lot of new concepts to a lot of people, especially in the traditional forced medicine field.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think I I do think it's really important to emphasize the circadian stuff because this is something that is completely mainstream now. And um, you know, if you go to PubMed and you look up circadian disruption and basically any issue, you're gonna find dozens of papers. And um specifically for this collagen synthesis one, though, there's some really good literature on it. And it's I dug through it. It's not that it's not actually that hard to understand. You don't have to know the quantum mechanics or the biophysics, even though there's an enzyme called lysal oxidase that's on a on a circadian timing mechanism. And then I mentioned MPP earlier. I don't remember what it stands for, but nitrate metal protonase. Yeah, exactly. I I'm not a biochemist, so like I read the stuff and then it's like, okay, I got the idea and it goes away. But um it's the fibroblasts are also uh on a circadian mechanism. So you have you're getting the effects of the basic downgrading of the mitochondrial function in those fibroblasts, they're very, very mitochondrial dense. But then on the other hand, on the other side, you're disrupting the timing and it's goes kind of like a double whammy. And then you got the lysol oxidase factor, which is critical in giving that kind of cross-linking that is required for the collagen to become just like the sturdy, stretchy rope like cable like material. And when it's not cross-linked and it and the the fibroblasts are producing incorrectly, you get a different type of collagen that's thicker, but not as um stretchy. And it's so it it's more prone to breaking when under high load.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so it's it's a it's compromised. It's the body's making a trade-off in its in the production of this of these factors to do as the best under adverse conditions. And yeah, um, yeah, that that sounds that sounds plausible and to me.
SPEAKER_00:I there was a um uh an ex-49er who tweeted just he's like, just for what it's worth, I never had plantar fascitis in my life, except for when I was in the 49ers. And plantar phasitis, uh you're you probably can explain there there's like an acute one and a long-term one. So it's there probably is a different technical term, but basically long-term plantar inflammation issues is characterized by a switch, I think, from collagen type three to type one or whichever direction. And it's very it's like it's documented in the literature, it's not controversial at all.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and again, very, very, very interesting. And let I think the other point, again, you we when we talked offline, we we're talking about this this idea of the a causal model. And in disease, especially chronic disease development and thinking long-term about what causes. It's uh no one's proposing necessarily like a univariate model. We're we're always implying that there's component it's often just a layering of component causes. And uh the the number of causes or the proportion of the contribution of different causes is going to be different for each individual because of genetic susceptibilities and because of their lifestyles. So I guess what what we're suggesting and what you're suggesting, Peter, is that not necessarily that there's no other factor contributing to these non-contact injuries, but if the athletes are doing everything else wrong and they're having chronic circadian rhythm disruption, and they're um then potentially being next to this substation is the icing on the cake. It's the cherry on top. That uh and and this mitochondrial dysfunction in these really high-end athletes is simply showing up as Achilles rupture, ACL ruptures.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. A high ankle syndromatosis, I think, is the one that the 49ers, it's just like their signature injury, and it's like it's where the tendon from the ankle connects to like one of the chin bones or something like that. And I think it's also important to note that these are non-linear effects. So even everything else that you mentioned, you can't predict in one person what's gonna happen. It's just not possible.
SPEAKER_01:The it reminds me of some of the the research that we're seeing in out of uh astronauts. And they, you know, they go into the space station, they get they get bombarded by an environment that is pr profoundly inhospitable to mitochondrial function. They're they're under visible only light that's deprived of infrared. Um they are uh in a hypomagnetic field, they they lack gravity, um, that they're actually getting also exposed to some cosmic radiation. But it it ages them. And and the some of them the fittest people because the bar to become an astronaut physically is so high. Uh, you know, some of these people are even coming back insulin resistant and showing signs of metabolic dysfunction. And it it makes me think that these athletes, they are the cream of the physic, physically, uh, physically fit and high performance humans. And that this is potentially their body's way of manifesting that mitochondrial dysfunction. And if it were anyone else, I don't know, maybe we need to do a uh a cohort study looking at the support staff, you know, is is the rate of diabetes higher in in the support 49 and support staff? Like let's compare that. Um that may that might show some signal for for other flavors of mitochondrial dysfunction manifesting in different um in different people.
SPEAKER_00:I think that's a really interesting point. Yeah, there's so many with mitochondrial dysfunction, there's so many different ways that it can manifest. You know, like we we're focused on the collagen issue because of the injuries, but you mentioned diabetes. Maybe there's more heart disease, maybe there's more depression insomnia. Like it could, it could be, it just depends on uh like where your weak points are in the DNA that the mitochondrial DNA that you got from your mall. And uh we could I could easily see doing a cluster study on all the different cohorts that spend all their time at this substation or at the facilities next to the substation. So if somebody wants like it's such a good opportunity to do some science here, and it's such a bummer that it's just been debunked by the mainstream. Like, but you know, the 49ers have a lot of money in this, so maybe when the you know the dust settles a little bit, they can focus on it when people aren't criticizing them. Anymore.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And and look, I'm interested in my in metabolic dis dys disease, metabolic syndrome, type of diabetes, because I'm I'm a primary care physician. Like this is the biggest problem that that that is hitting populations. And this is how it m it manifests in people who live sedentary lifestyles, that eat ultra-processed foods, that have chronic circadian rhythm disruption, but they're not high performance athletes. And and these, I'm sure maybe if they they started doing the the degree of exercise, um, they might be getting certain these injuries. And and you do see it. You see dads I mean, I've I've I have patients, you know, the the late 40s dad at at indoor soccer um ruptured ACL. Like that's I think I've had two of those. Um I mean it does happen, but to your point, uh the mitochondria dunction manifests differently depending on what the other environmental inputs are. And uh I think the other um key point here is that um and this might might explain to some degree why uh people have been reluctant to it or it's been somewhat opaque in terms of administer uh attributing causation to EMF exposure, which is um how heterogeneous this the the uh phenotype of mitochondrial dysfunction is. And obviously the heart, the brain, the retina have some of the most amount dense uh the highest density of mitochondria, but um because of this idiosyncratic response, I think sometimes you do get a such a variation, and that can sometimes distort the the the picture. Um I think that's a really interesting point. Oh, sorry, go ahead. Just from an epidemiological point of view.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And and even from a lab point of view, I I think it's a really important point because if you want, if you go back to the 70s, Dr. Andrew Marino, he was uh the biophysicist who worked with Dr. Robert O'Becker, who was, for the listeners who don't know, just really important scientists in figuring out how electricity and EMS affect our body. They spent Marino spent decades studying this issue and fighting. He got his uh law degree so he could fight, be his own representative in fighting the um the power utilities that wanted to put high voltage lines over people's homes in upstate New York. And because the effects are nonlinear, they would do a study on rats and they do like three generations, and one of them would just be shriveled up in week after three generations, and one of them would actually be stronger, and then they could do other things to like add other external stressors like the size of the cage and all these factors to kind of manipulate the science, and then you just average it out and like, well, this one got bigger and this one got smaller, so the net effect is zero, and so we're not gonna study this anymore. And it's unfortunate because the fact that these effects are nonlinear is really important. It's kind of the most important factor in understanding why there's such a widespread difference in health effects from it, and that thing itself has been used to suppress the science.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and look, I'm I'm actually optimistic. I think it's it's going to take, and maybe maybe the for this 49ers issue and your analysis of it ends up being the kind of mark in the sand, the fork in the road that brings more widespread attention to the role of of non-native EMF exposure in human health. Because I I really believe it's it's actually going to take something this big or this important to get people to consider this as a as a health hazard. Because up till now, there hasn't been a lot of movement. And unless you are in some of these, I would say extremely niche um health or scientific circles, you you you'd have absolutely no idea. And people almost want to believe that there's a it's a nothing burger because the implications are pretty profound in terms of exposures, um, environmental exposures that they're suffering from. But you know, you don't have to look far to see the rates of obesity, I mean, premature greying and balding. I I really think that's that's that compared to previous generations. If you compare men to their fathers, like that that's another cut canary in the coal mine from mitochondrial dysfunction. And I think as a society, we're accelerating our use of radio frequency radiation, we're accelerating our use of of the devices and and and the AC power grid. We're only gonna be more exposed to these EMFs. And I think it's time that we we collectively take our head out of the sand and start asking serious scientific questions about what this is doing to our physiology. And I think when people do those investigations, they're gonna come back to mitochondrial dysfunction and they're gonna come back to mitochondrial health and and a lot of the topics that we discussed today.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I just want to add to your point about it being kind of an you call it like a fork in the road. I was thinking, I think of it as an inflection point. I don't know where it's gonna lead, but I can tell you that I've done a lot of mostly I've done media, like NFL sports-related media. And I did the show called Pardon My Take, which is part of an organization called Barst Barstool Sports, which is very mainstream, fun, funny sports program. And I cannot tell you how much feedback I've got from just like normal NFL loving people, just saying, Oh my God, this I I've always kind of known this stuff wasn't good for me. And I couldn't explain why. And I don't even need to explain why, I just know. And they want to know what they can do to kind of mitigate, and they're asking about blue blockers for their circadian stuff. And like just for context, I got deep into this stuff two years ago. Like, I've I've been deep into it since I worked for a wireless networking company eight years ago, but two years ago, I decided this is going to be my focus for my career for a while. And for the most part, if I mentioned it to someone, I'd maybe if I was lucky, I wouldn't get an eye roll. Um, maybe just get kind of baffled, you know, that sort of thing. Or I'd explain something and then the person I was hanging on would leave and they put their blue, like after I'm just telling them everything about it, they'd be like, okay, put their Bluetooth headset in and listen to their podcast again. It's like it just wasn't resonating to the point where I was like, I'm not even gonna bother talking about it anymore, beyond just my platform and my work because I don't want to bother people. And then just like overnight, everybody I know is interested in it and they're receptive to it. So I don't know where it's gonna go on the science side of things, but there's definitely a bit of like kind of a collective awakening happening right now. It's pretty exciting. Amazing.
SPEAKER_01:Well, any last points you want to add before we wrap up in terms of the article series or um points you want to make or anything else that you want to share?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I just want to say it's really like it's interesting that so that first tweet in that thread got 22 million views. Um, and then you can't really count how many it's gotten in the media and all over social media and stuff. But I did a four-part essay series, and the second and the third essays were the one that had the meat of the mechanisms. Last time I checked, the second and the third had about 8,000 views. So that's a stark contrast between the number of people who are discussing this issue as if they understand it, and the people who've actually read those essays. So I would just encourage anybody, if you're curious, just read the essays. And you can even comment or email me, and I'm tend to respond. And I'm as long as you're uh engaging with me in good faith, I will answer honestly and do my best to help you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and look, the the whole reason why we're in this, I mean, you're in this, you do you as you said in the in the beginning, is for the for the players to help to help the players, and yeah, and you know, I'm a similar motive to help patients. So you know the motives aren't uh the the motives aren't misaligned here. We're just simply trying to spread a uh a message that we think is relevant and significant for people's health. Yep. Sweet. So very good. I'm I think people love this conversation, Peter. So thanks for joining us. Um what where can you hand us off to your Substack or or social media? How can people interact with you and contact you?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think the easiest thing is just go to sunlightislive.com and that's uh basically a little sunlight circadian app that I created that's free right now. And you just sign up and you can learn. It's got a lot of education materials and tools that you can use, and that'll have links to my social media living underscore injury and living underscore energy at X. And my Substack is Peter Anthony Cowan. I I should have like if I was any good at Mark and I would have used the same handle for every platform, but I'm not, so I didn't. Um, but it it's all it's all there. And you can find my email address if you want to ask questions and um yeah, I'm I'm here.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. A bit of a prudent slip there. Thank you very much, Peter. Um yeah, great to talk to you. And uh yeah, thanks for spreading this important message. Thanks for having me, man, because I really enjoyed it.
